Re: Setting over the net in quads

[Todd <tdh@vbref.org>]

"William R. Chesky" <wchesky@fame.com> writes:
> Hello,
> 
> Could somebody help clarify the rules on setting over the net in
> quads.  My team had a dispute with the other team about under what
> circumstances this is legal.  They said it is only legal if you are
> facing the net and the direction of the set is perpindicular to the
> net.

False.  This is a common misconception.  

First, under USA volleyball rules (the only rules of which I'm aware
that adequately address 2's 3's 4's and 6's outdoor play) there are no
restrictions to setting over for 4 player competition.

Second, even in the case of doubles and triples competition, the
perpendicularity of an intentional set-over is no between the ball's
path and the net.  It's the ball's path with respect to the player's
body.

> From USA Volleyball beach rules:

USAV Beach 1998-99
    13.4 Characteristics of the Contact
    ...
    13.4.4 A contact of the ball using the fingers of one or two hand
           to direct the ball toward a teammate is a set.  A player
           may set the ball in any direction toward his/her team's
           court.
    ...
    13.4.5 For doubles and triples competition only: If the ball is
           intentionally set into the opponent's court, the player
           must contact the ball with two hands above his/her
           shoulders and set it directly forward or directly backward
           with relation to his/her body.
    13.4.5 Commentary: A legal set directed toward a teammate that
           crosses the net because of elements is not a fault,
           regardless of the player's body position.
    
AVP doubles rules are (thankfully) consistent on this point:
    AVP rules:
    C. When the ball is intentionally "set" into the opponent's court, the
       player's shoulders must be "squared up" or perpendicular to the
       line of flight.

> Even though the ref couldn't find such a rule in the rulebook she
> had with her, she ended up siding with them.

Not surprising.  Could have been any one of a number of rulebooks,
probably an indoor one!

> This didn't fit w/ what I remember so I did some searching on the
> web and the closest thing I found to this rule was in the USAV
> outdoor rules which states:
> 
> 13.4.5. For Doubles and Triples Competition only: If the ball is
> intentionally set into the opponent's court, the player must contact
> the ball with two hands above his/her shoulders and set it directly
> forward or directly backward with relation to his/her body.
> 
> So it appears to me that they got it wrong on two counts: 1) the set
> doesn't have to be perpindicular to the net, just in line with
> whatever way the setter is facing and 2) this doesn't even apply to
> quads -- it's only a 2s and 3s rule!  So it looks to me like in
> outdoor quads you should be able to set the ball over any time in
> any way as long as it's not a lift, double hit, etc.

Ding!  You are correct, sir.


> To muddy the waters further, though, my team captain talked to a
> league coordinator the next day, and this person said that you are
> not allowed to set over the net at all! 

Also a common misconception, and a common local "homer" rule.  This
stuff is so frustrating, isn't it?

> He also said they are going by "US beach volleyball rules". 

Hahaha.  I asked a league coordinator in Barrington, IL once which
rules we would be using for the league.  She responded "the rules of
volleyball."  I knew we were in trouble.  Sounds like your bunch isn't
much better off.


> I don't know if that means USAV or what.  Does anybody know if that
> is common parlance for USAV?  If so, that's strange because I
> certainly couldn't find any such rule in the USAV rulebook I found
> on the web.

The fact that you're asking this question indicates that you're in
better command of the rules than those who are running your league.
Gently steer them the way of USA Volleyball beach rules.  Feel free to
use this as a guide:

        http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/ref/beach/


> Am I missing something here?  Is there some other "official"
> organization that sand leagues commonly use whose rulebook does
> include this particular rule?  Has anybody else ever encountered
> this rule before?  Is it just a common local rule in some areas?  Or
> is this just a bit of volleyball folklore that has become fact in
> some areas and the ref got snowed?

Tons of rulebooks.  The best one for league play are the USA
Volleyball beach rules.  I claim these are the best because they are
so flexible--they cover co-rec, 2's 3's 4's and 6's.  AVP and FIVB
beach rules are specific to 2's play.   For more info, on various
rulesets see: 

        http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/ref/rulesets.html


> FWIW, we're probably playing A-B level ball .  So it's fairly
> competetive. Enough so that it irks us that we might be playing w/
> some rules that somebody pulled out of thin air and then claims up
> and down that they're the "official" outdoor volleyball rules.


Don't give up.  Work with that league organizer to put together a
coherent statement of rules that's based heavily (if not exclusively)
on the USA Volleyball beach rulebook, available on-line here:

        http://usavolleyball.org/pub/rule_book.htm 

and have them craft a rules statement modeled after this:

        http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/ref/beach/


Good luck!


Best Regards,
--
                  Todd H.   tdh@vbref.org
USAV Regional Referee, Great Lakes Region, Palatine, IL
Todd's Volleyball Referee Page http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/
"So you're a Ref and an engineer? Oh that explains it...."