Re: Down ref blows timeout after up ref blows for serve (injustice)

[Todd <tdh@vbref.org>]

Bart,

I agree.  The up ref blew it (in a matter of speaking).  Unless NAGWS
departs significantly on this small point, the 2nd whistle has to be
addressed by the first referee.  Commentary 12.2 of the USAV rules
states it pretty clearly:

12.2 Commentary 
    In the case of an inadvertent whistle, the rally is ended.  The
    first referee must make a ruling that will not penlize either
    team.

As R1, I would initially treat this purely as an inadvertent whistle
by second referee.  After having a chat with the second ref to
determine if the request was made before or after the whistle for
serve, I would decide whether to:

        a) allow the timeout (which compromises the R2's credibility
           somewhat) since the request was made properly, but not
           acted on quickly enough by the R2, 

        b) pretend that the request was improper, sanction the IR, and
           reserve the ball.  or

        c) disallow the timeout w/o sanction.


This has all the gray areas of a good "official's forum" question!
The USAV rules don't address the real-world time lag between a
timeout/sub request and the R2 acting on said request.  I don't
believe the NAGWS rules do either...but that rulebook is at home.  :(

In any case, the course of action taken by your R1 would not be
appropriate in any circumstance, IMHO.


Best Regards,
--
                  Todd H.   tdh@vbref.org
USAV Regional Referee, Great Lakes Region, Palatine, IL
Todd's Volleyball Referee Page http://www.io.com/~tdh/vball/
"So you're a Ref and an engineer? Oh that explains it...."


b_blair@ix.netcom.com(Bart Blair) writes:
> 
> Here is the situation:
>     I was reffing at a College tourney in New Jersey this past weekend
> (NAGWS Rules).  I reffed the Quarter Finals, then was off the semis and
> finals.  They were having trouble getting enough staff to call lines
> and score the semis, so I offered to stay and score the semis.  There
> were 2 fairly dominant teams all day, and they were playing in the
> semis (because it was a 3 pool tourney).  Team 1 is the stronger team. 
> Team 1 leads 2 games to 1, having won the first 2 games and lost the
> third.  Team 1 is serving, game tied at 12 - 12.  
> 
> Here is the problem:
>     Team 2's coach calls for a time out, but the down ref doesn't blow
> the whistle before the up ref blows for the serve.  In fact the down
> ref does blow his whistle momentarily AFTER the up ref, but the players
> can definately hear the down refs whislte.  Team 1 Serves at the up
> refs whistle, Team 2 stops play and is aced.  The up ref asks the down
> ref whose whistle was first, and the down ref says that he blew his
> just after the up refs.  
> 
> At this point, I expect an improper request sanction and a replay.  The
> up ref treats the situation like there was never a second whistle!!! 
> He told me later that since the other whistle was after his, that his
> was the only one that counted!!  
> 
> If I was the coach of Team 2, I would have stopped play and filed a
> protest.  Team 2, by the way ended up losing the game 15-12, lost the
> match 3-1.  Am I crazy, or was this a bad decision???
> 
> Bartman